'Speedy 
                                            Trial Tribunal can not be a temporary 
                                            or a substantive solution'
                                          Former 
                                            Chief Justice Mostafa Kamal talks 
                                            to Kaushik Sankar Das of The Daily 
                                            Star
                                            ...................................................................
                                          The 
                                            Daily Star (TDS):Does the legal system 
                                            or the judicial process in Bangladesh 
                                            favour the rich only?
                                            Mostafa Kamal(MK): No legal system 
                                            or judicial process is specifically 
                                            designed to favour the rich. Our legal 
                                            system or judicial process was never 
                                            designed to favour the rich. But if 
                                            the rich becomes richer and the poor 
                                            poorer and if more people are thrown 
                                            progressively below the poverty line, 
                                            then the rich finds a way out of those 
                                            state monopolies that no longer serve 
                                            him with efficiency and creates a 
                                            parallel service system of its own. 
                                            
                                          It 
                                            will dismantle state monopoly and 
                                            establish private clinics, hospitals, 
                                            universities, banks, insurance companies, 
                                            leasing and other financial institutions, 
                                            mobile phones, newspapers and periodicals, 
                                            courier service etc. and devise a 
                                            thousand other ways to establish, 
                                            run and flourish an economy supported 
                                            by a chain of institutions parallel 
                                            to and richer than those of the state. 
                                            Unfortunately for them, the country's 
                                            constitution does not allow them to 
                                            set up parallel civil and criminal 
                                            courts to cater for their litigation 
                                            needs. They would have done it if 
                                            were possible. So they try to bend 
                                            the country's statutory civil and 
                                            criminal justice delivery system to 
                                            their own advantage. 
                                          They 
                                            are partially successful at times 
                                            but theirs is not a hundred per cent 
                                            success story in completely breaking 
                                            down the legal system and the judicial 
                                            process. So, my answer to your question 
                                            is, no, the legal system or the judicial 
                                            process does not favour the rich. 
                                            If it appears to be favouring them, 
                                            the focus of attention should be to 
                                            reform the economy and achieve a fair 
                                            distribution of wealth. With a vulgar 
                                            accumulation of wealth in the hands 
                                            of a few and with a wider distribution 
                                            of poverty among the rising population 
                                            all the systems and processes will 
                                            look like favouring the rich. It is 
                                            easy to give a system and a process 
                                            a bad name and then hang it, but it 
                                            is not easy to devise an alternative 
                                            system and process and establish them, 
                                            keeping he gap between the rich and 
                                            the poor as wide and as wild as before.
                                          TDS:Would 
                                            you agree that ignorance of law, lack 
                                            of money and fear of reprisal keep 
                                            the ordinary people, mainly the poor, 
                                            from taking resort to court?
                                            MK:No, I do not agree. Ignorance of 
                                            law is not the monopoly of the ordinary 
                                            people, mainly the poor. I find many 
                                            rich people and otherwise highly educated 
                                            people occupying or formerly occupying 
                                            responsible positions in society equally 
                                            if not more ignorant of law. Some 
                                            lawyers and even some police officers, 
                                            magistrates and judges are ignorant 
                                            of the law that they ought to know. 
                                            Lack of money is not a deterrent to 
                                            litigation. What is deterrent is the 
                                            hassle and prolonged battle that ensues 
                                            when a civil or criminal litigation 
                                            begins. Fear of reprisal is equally 
                                            present in the mind of the rich and 
                                            the poor, the rich from the richer 
                                            and the poor from the equally poor 
                                            as well as from the rich. But the 
                                            legal system and the judicial process 
                                            have nothing to do with the fear of 
                                            reprisal. Given a good law and order 
                                            situation the fear will evaporate.
                                          TDS: 
                                            The courts have already been overburdened 
                                            with thousands of cases. What causes 
                                            the inordinate delay in disposing 
                                            of a case? Why is there a similar 
                                            scene both in the higher and lower 
                                            courts?
                                            MK: Reason No. 1. The physical infrastructure 
                                            of the courts has not been attended 
                                            to. East Pakistan started with 3 crores 
                                            of people in 1947. Today we are a 
                                            nation of 14 crores. Most of our court 
                                            buildings are 150-year dilapidated 
                                            buildings too congested to accommodate 
                                            lawyers, judges, the litigant public 
                                            and court staff. Even the Supreme 
                                            Court building was not designed to 
                                            be a Supreme Court. It was designed 
                                            to be a Provincial High Court building. 
                                            Now it is too small to accommodate 
                                            an enlarged High Court Division and 
                                            an enlarged Appellate Division. Under 
                                            the Legal and Judicial Capacity building 
                                            project of the Government of Bangladesh, 
                                            funded by the World Bank, a number 
                                            of new district court buildings, some 
                                            of them vertically, will be built. 
                                            But there is no plan to build a new 
                                            High Court Division building and a 
                                            new Appellate Division building, handing 
                                            over the present one to the Dhaka 
                                            District Court that has to accommodate 
                                            41 Judges and ejlashes.
                                          Reason 
                                            No. 2. Along with a population explosion, 
                                            there has been a litigation explosion 
                                            in Bangladesh. From an exclusively 
                                            land-related litigation, the country 
                                            has been propelled into a global economy 
                                            litigation. 
                                          The 
                                            lower courts were ill-prepared for 
                                            this multi-pronged litigation explosion. 
                                            No attention was paid to the growing 
                                            needs in the legal and judicial sector 
                                            to bear the load of a vastly expanded 
                                            justice delivery system. 
                                          Still 
                                            awaited are an increase in the number 
                                            of lower court judges and court staff, 
                                            increase in their pay and allowances, 
                                            introduction of modern technology, 
                                            like computer, photocopier, tape recording 
                                            machines for recording evidence etc. 
                                            in the preparation of cases for trial, 
                                            a modern case management system and 
                                            a modern court administration system, 
                                            resolution of disputes outside the 
                                            court by mediation, arbitration or 
                                            conciliation. 
                                          Taking 
                                            over of the management of the case 
                                            by the court instead of leaving it 
                                            to the lawyers and clients, purging 
                                            frivolous, vexatious and false cases 
                                            at the threshold stage, reducing adjournments 
                                            strictly and imposing heavy costs 
                                            as a deterrent to frivolous adjournments, 
                                            setting up a calendar for each case 
                                            and strictly adhering to it, shortening 
                                            the disputed questions of fact and 
                                            law long before trial to make the 
                                            trial short and less time-consuming, 
                                            ensuring that an event scheduled to 
                                            take place on a certain date will 
                                            take place definitely on the scheduled 
                                            date, thus ensuring certainty in the 
                                            judicial process remain a far cry. 
                                            
                                          Access 
                                            to justice by the poor, disadvantaged, 
                                            women and children by creating physical 
                                            facilities in the court precincts 
                                            and by rationalizing the legal aid 
                                            system, training the court staff on 
                                            modern technology, case management 
                                            and case administration, to name a 
                                            few, have not taken place at all and 
                                            the accumulation of these and other 
                                            in attentions and neglect have finally 
                                            taken their toll in the shape of unacceptable 
                                            backlog of cases, delay in the disposal 
                                            of cases and corruption at those points 
                                            where the suits get stuck. Some of 
                                            the problems indicated above have 
                                            been very recently taken care of by 
                                            amending some statutes and some of 
                                            the other problems are being attended 
                                            to by the Legal and Judicial Capacity 
                                            building project of the Government 
                                            of Bangladesh, that is confined to 
                                            civil cases only, but it must be born 
                                            in mind that legal and judicial overhauling 
                                            requires the continued efforts of 
                                            at least two or three generations 
                                            of judges, lawyers and court staff. 
                                            You cannot come out of the morass 
                                            in which we now find ourselves by 
                                            simply wishing that it goes. Also 
                                            immediate is the taking up of a new 
                                            project -- that of overhauling the 
                                            criminal justice delivery system. 
                                            I hope that the government will move 
                                            quickly towards that direction.
                                          Answer 
                                            to the second part of the question. 
                                            The higher judiciary is also afflicted 
                                            with the problem of litigation explosion. 
                                            I do not agree with those who think 
                                            that appointment of more judges will 
                                            solve the problem. A judge who possesses 
                                            the quick faculty of separating the 
                                            chaff from the grain is able to dispose 
                                            of a case quickly and with justice. 
                                            People with such ability are hard 
                                            to come by, but we must not lose heart 
                                            and have faith upon the younger generation 
                                            of lawyers who are joining the Bar 
                                            with far better qualifications and 
                                            upon the younger judges who have joined 
                                            the subordinate judiciary with far 
                                            better qualities and qualifications. 
                                            Like the subordinate judiciary and 
                                            the magistracy, the higher judiciary 
                                            also needs a better case management 
                                            and court administration system and 
                                            a wide use of modern technology.
                                          TDS: 
                                            Is it the judicial system or something 
                                            else?
                                            MK: We have a 250-year old tried and 
                                            tested judicial system, older than 
                                            that of the USA. We are not a Banana 
                                            Republic. Nor are we an ex-Soviet 
                                            Union country devoid of any legal 
                                            tradition. Our problem is one of overloading 
                                            and poor management. You cannot transplant 
                                            an alien system into an ancient system.
                                          But 
                                            yes, we have the paramount, all-important 
                                            and pervasive problem of control of 
                                            the judiciary by the executive. That 
                                            is the "something else" 
                                            in your question. Four years ago the 
                                            Appellate Division passed the judgment 
                                            in Masdar Hossain's case ordering 
                                            the Government to constitute a Judicial 
                                            Service by Presidential Rule or otherwise, 
                                            constitute a Judicial Service Commission, 
                                            a Judicial Pay Commission and to frame 
                                            rules for pre-recruitment and discipline 
                                            rules for the members of the Judicial 
                                            Service. Time has been taken 18 times 
                                            so far to implement this decision. 
                                            We do not know of any move by the 
                                            Government to implement the apex Court's 
                                            directives. 
                                          I 
                                            have repeatedly said after my retirement 
                                            and am reiterating now that whatever 
                                            progress be made with the Legal and 
                                            Judicial Capacity Building Project 
                                            or any Criminal Justice Project in 
                                            future, Bangladesh Judiciary will 
                                            never gain credibility both inside 
                                            and outside the country unless the 
                                            judiciary is separated from the executive. 
                                            I shall say something more. The judgment 
                                            in Masdar Hossain's case was passed 
                                            within the limits of the existing 
                                            Constitution, but the Constitution 
                                            does not go far enough to separate 
                                            the judiciary from the executive. 
                                            The Constitution should be amended 
                                            to make the separation complete, meaningful 
                                            and effective.
                                          TDS: 
                                            Do you think the lawyers could play 
                                            a more sincere and accountable role 
                                            in expediting the judicial process?
                                            MK: Yes, I do. Lawyers all over the 
                                            developed world have taken the initiative 
                                            to reduce backlog of cases, to introduce 
                                            Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR), 
                                            modern case management and court administration. 
                                            Our lawyers are by and large unaware 
                                            of these developments elsewhere. Our 
                                            prominent lawyers who have traveled 
                                            and even conducted cases outside the 
                                            country have disappointingly been 
                                            reticent in imparting their knowledge 
                                            of these developments to their fellow 
                                            lawyers. The adversarial system, introduced 
                                            by the British in this country, is 
                                            being abandoned by the British themselves 
                                            in their latest legal reform. They 
                                            are moving towards a consensual resolution 
                                            of disputes that the USA, Canada and 
                                            Australia achieved many years ago. 
                                            
                                          TDS: 
                                            What could be the immediate and sustainable 
                                            solution?
                                            MK: I regret to say that accumulated 
                                            problems in the judiciary do not yield 
                                            to any immediate and ready-made solution. 
                                            But there can be a sustainable solution 
                                            if we, the lawyers, judges and the 
                                            court staff, put in a concerned effort 
                                            for two or three generations along 
                                            the lines indicated earlier.
                                          TDS: 
                                            Why have not any steps been taken 
                                            so far to address this problem?
                                            MK: No one considered building up 
                                            of judicial infrastructure, case management, 
                                            court administration and the introduction 
                                            of modern technology in the court 
                                            important enough to be included in 
                                            the successive Five Year Plans of 
                                            the then Pakistan and Bangladesh. 
                                            There were a number of lawyers and 
                                            Judges at the helm of affairs at different 
                                            times in the past. They suffered from 
                                            a lack of vision. Bureaucrats, industrialists, 
                                            businessmen and others did not think 
                                            of it. The whole nation is now paying 
                                            for their lapses.
                                          TDS: 
                                            Could the newly introduced speedy 
                                            trial tribunal be an effective solution?
                                            MK: Speedy Trial Tribunal is a piece 
                                            of selective justice that can neither 
                                            be a temporary nor a substantive solution. 
                                            It can at best be an exercise in ad-hocism. 
                                            Each component of criminal investigation 
                                            and trial is in a state of disarray. 
                                            
                                          The 
                                            whole process of filing an FIR with 
                                            the police, the magistracy enjoying 
                                            both executive and judicial powers, 
                                            conditions of remand, the investigative 
                                            process, the prosecution agencies, 
                                            expert evidence, availability of witnesses, 
                                            forensic, post-mortem examination, 
                                            chemical tests including viscera examination, 
                                            submission of charge sheet or final 
                                            report, interference of the legislators 
                                            and the executive with the criminal 
                                            justice system and finally the manner 
                                            and method of criminal trial -- are 
                                            all in need of a thorough revision. 
                                            
                                          Several 
                                            Ministries are involved in the process. 
                                            The first requirement is a political 
                                            will to reform, the second requirement 
                                            is the formulation of an all-comprehensive 
                                            reform strategy in the criminal justice 
                                            delivery system, the third requirement 
                                            is investment of funds and the fourth 
                                            requirement is execution. Piecemeal 
                                            solutions increase, not decrease the 
                                            maladies.
                                          TDS: 
                                            Does politics undermine or influence 
                                            the judicial process? If so, to what 
                                            extent?
                                            MK: Yes it does, but there is no qualitative 
                                            or quantitative measurement indicator 
                                            with which to determine its extent. 
                                            Separate the judiciary completely 
                                            from the executive and you will see 
                                            how politics will leave the judiciary 
                                            disgracefully. There can be no improvement 
                                            in the judicial process without an 
                                            effective separation if we are to 
                                            achieve an impartial and independent 
                                            judicial process, both in the civil 
                                            and in the criminal justice delivery 
                                            system.
                                          TDS: 
                                            Similarly to what extent black money 
                                            influences the judicial process?
                                            MK: When money influences the judicial 
                                            process there is no knowing whether 
                                            it is white money or black money that 
                                            is being pumped into the process.
                                          .........................................................
                                            The interviewer is assistant editor 
                                            of The Daily Star.